Oral history interview with Bishop Robbie Chiphaliwali

00:00 Introductions.

01:00 How the church was ‘planted’ in the UK. Bishop Chiphaliwali has been leader since 2001.

02:20 Being a pastor is a fulltime position, supported by church volunteers.

03:00 The Bishop describes memorable life events including school entrance exams and attendance.

09:34 The death of his mother.

11:19 A promotion at work allowed him to travel abroad, the first time he had been on a plane. One of few from his clan to travel.

13:00 1986, Tensions between Malawi and Mozambique. His plane was hit in an anti-aircraft attack. Another plane following was shot down. ‘I saw the hand of the Lord’.

21:50 Coming to the United Kingdom is another stand out memory.

21:58 Recalls composing a song about Great Britain and making a map in his youth.

23:15 Talks about his time after the accident and how he started a business and prospered.

23:40 Became involved in politics and the national referendum .

24:32 Came to the UK in 2001. Sold everything. His timber business was doing well.

26:40 UNIDO offered the Bishop and his wife the chance to study for an MBA in the UK . Having such a degree meant being able to obtain a loan.

28:04 His wife was already studying in the UK and the couple had to sponsor themselves. Later awarded Commonwealth sponsorship.

31:44 In 1974 he was [unjustly] suspended from school and unable to sit his exams. Eventually he sat them away from others. Had to repeat and pass form 4.

37:50 Recalls the path to try and study and the issues he faced from other people.

45:00 Talks of his qualifications.

47:00 The Bishop talks of the differences today in Malawi.

48:00 In all of my fights [to get where I wanted to be] no white man ever fought me.

52:12 On the topic of weddings: the ceremony is an event that brings two people together. In marriage your life becomes “twinned” with somebody. Talks of traditional weddings.

55:22 Explains how uncles of the man will approach the uncles of a woman he wishes to marry. Talks of dowry. Explains how in the old tradition a couple is not allowed to get married right away.

1:00:33 Lobola [dowry] was more pronounced in the past. Things have changed a little but lobola is still practiced. Discusses how things are changing for the better.

1:02:20 His son recently married and lobola was paid at the price of six bulls.

1:03:17 In the past it was considered a business. Reflects on recent modifications. Feels the influence of other cultures confuses Malawi culture.

1:05:58 Time spent with in-laws before a wedding was to teach valuable lessons.

1:08:14 Such things are now left out. Young people rush to marry and are not always responsible enough to do so.

1:09:00 Traditions in Malawi [in the past] and current times.

1:11:00 Recalls senior school where boys would invite girls to a debate. After a winner was announced there would be a dance. Schools would create chances to meet.

1:12:30 Social dating means things are different now though some couples still meet in the more traditional way.

1:13:57 Talks of two families living in the UK today who are discussing the possibility of their children marrying. Young people can also meet at church.

1:16:39 Online dating: ‘The earth has become a small village now’. Though the process can sometimes be misleading, not everyone can travel to look for a partner.

1:19:50 The idea of courtship is to get to know each other. Courtship today is like already living as a married couple and is messing everything up.

1:23:25 In his tradition arranged marriages are very common. People tended to marry within their own tribes so traditions did not die.

1:25:16 Grandfather married a slave girl from a different tribe which was taboo. His grandfather had to physically fight his own father to be allowed to marry.

1:27:05 Ngoni’s will fight, that’s why they are warriors. Discusses Ngoni traditions.

1:31:25 Asked about the experience of marriage.

1:31:45 [Recording is paused for a break]

1:32:10 ‘Marriage has got its own language’. If you don’t understand this language you need to learn.

1:35:50 Today the facilitators are not there to prepare people [for marriage]. The younger generation have not been taught.

1:37:15 Young people have different ideas about appropriate clothing and music. A country that loses history loses heritage, culture and traditions.

1:42:54 Children today see a ‘mixed bag’ of cultures. But Malawi has its own traditions and cultures and it takes a project such as this one to be able to teach.

1:45:04 From a bible perspective, marriage is between two people; a woman and a man. Anything else is not marriage, it’s a relationship.

1:47:20 Inter-racial marriages have to lay foundations to manage the two cultures. The language of marriage goes beyond race.

1:49:30 Explains gender-based traditions practiced at home, that lead to mutual respect between he and his wife.

1:51:50 It is the same with different faiths. If one person believes something is absolute and the other doesn’t there will be conflict within the marriage.

1:56:03 He advises inter-racial, inter-faith and inter-cultural couples to talk and learn how to overcome these things before getting married.

1:59:34 Recalls specific difficulties experienced by an inter-racial couple

2:01:14 Final comments.

2:01:40 Is positive about the project. Hopes learning might lead to less ‘marriages being broken’.

2:05:53 The project explores issues from a UK perspective but people can also go to Malawi to learn about their culture and see things first hand.

2:06:42 Thanks are given.

2:07:02 End of recording.