Unedited audio of the Ahmed Ali filmed interview Interview by: Atiha Chaudry

Interview description by: Harriet Morgan-Shami

Track 1:

Discusses his heritage and childhood. States that he was born in Pakistan but that he has many different heritages. Grew up in Karachi while his father worked for the British Army and then the Merchant Navy who he missed very much while he was away. [01:12] Remembers gong to primary school smartly dressed and saluting the Pakistani flag. Talks about attending school in both Karachi and Sylhet due to his father’s work and then his father’s decision to leave Karachi so that he could work in Europe. [01:57] Talks about the reasons for his father joining the Merchant Navy. His grandmother was concerned for her son’s welfare in the British Army so persuaded him to leave. Financial decisions were also a factor. [02:39]

Track 2:

Talks more about his father’s decision to join the Merchant Navy and how this took him away from his new wife. Tells the story of his mother writing a letter to inform her husband of the birth of his first son by including the baby’s handprint. Talks about poverty and lack of employment being a key factor in his father’s decision to migrate to the UK. [01:36] Talks about his primary education being between Karachi and Sylhet until he was 7 and then moving to the UK where he received the majority of his education. As a result he can speak Urdu, Sylheti and Bengali. [02:18] He explains that his father was away on a voyage when the Partition happened and returned to the newly formed East Pakistan. His family had not had to move as Sylhet became the new East Pakistan and, as Muslims, they were therefore on the right side of the border. Although he was not directly affected by the Partition, he can remember his grandparents talking about the cruelties of the British administration e.g. decapitation for failure to pay taxes, criminals being sent to a prison in Madagascar for life. [04:06] General discussion about filming/technical issues. [04:55]

Track 3:

Talks about receiving a Eurocentric education in the UK and therefore not being taught about the history of the Partition in school. Remembers becoming more aware of the geo-political situation as he grew older. Describes the impact of the Partition on the three ethnic communities in the UK as causing a tension between them, particularly Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. Recalls a close friendship between his brother and a Pakistani friend that continues today. Makes a direct link between the Partition and inter-relational trauma. [02:53] Discusses the war in Bangladesh and his interest in what was happening there as a young teenager. Refers to the war as a genocide and comments on the “barbarity” of Punjabi soldiers. Remembers seeing the Pakistani flag being burned during protests at that time and being sad about that. Concludes that the hatred between the two nations has not been redressed, that Pakistan needs to make an official apology in order to start resolving ongoing issues. [05:00] Talks about Bangladesh experiencing a double trauma – the original Partition and then the subsequent partition. Expresses anger about why the conflict had to happen in the first place – why couldn’t there have been more negotiation. Makes a link between what happened in Bangladesh to the trauma that is happening now in the UK after the Brexit vote. [07:26]

Track 4:

Interviewer asks how he feels about the Partition now. He describes his life in the UK as being one of privilege, especially his work in equality and human rights. Reflects on the history/politics behind the decision to divide India. Asks whether the cost of the Partition has been the lack of healing between nations and whether or not the ensuing poverty has meant that independence has not actually been achieved. Concludes that the Partition should not have happened and that multiple agents are to blame. [04:40] Reflects that his parents would have wanted one united country rather than three divided ones. [05:11]

Track 5:

Reflects on the lack of recognition that is given to the Bengali contribution to Pakistani independence by the Pakistani community today e.g. the fact that the Muslim League began in Dhaka, the Lahore Resolution was drafted by a Bengali. Feels that better recognition of this history by the Pakistani community would bring cohesion and catharsis. [02:01] Refers to the Bangladeshi War of Independence in 1971 as being a second partition. Asserts that this wasn’t the fault of the people but rather the politicians in Pakistan. Gives some political/historical context to the war. States that people do not talk about it because it was a shame, a genocide. Remembers seeing magazine articles about it as a boy of 13 at the time. [04:18 End of interview]